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Concealed Carry Identifiers

After reading some of the discussion about having some kind of CCW Identifier (badge, sash, or drop down panel) I have to conclude that this an answer looking for a question.

The theory is that if there was some kind of incident, an armed citizen would display this credential and be less likely to be shot by responding police officers. The bad guys can’t get these? Who says the police are going trust people wearing them? If you are at ground zero of an incident and holding a gun you just have to hope that the police are observing your actions rather than simply seeing you as a “threat target.”

If you are standing there with a gun you are forcing the police to deal with you immediately and I would rather have the police deal with me after they have a handle on the situation. Once the police arrive on scene I want to be holstered and I want to have moved to a location where the police can deal with me on their terms (meeting the police in the parking lot would probably be best), hands up and identification out.

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Holding criminals at gun point.

There are a lot of ‘teachable points’ in this story:

In their complaint in Maricopa County Court, Anthony and Lesley Arambula say an armed intruder “crashed through the front window” of their home on Sept. 17, 2008 and ran into one of their son’s bedrooms.

Anthony, worried about his son who was still in his bedroom, says he “held the intruder calmly at gunpoint” and called 911.

Phoenix Police officers already in the neighborhood heard the crash of the Arambulas’ window. When they approached the house, Lesley says, she told Sgt. Sean Coutts that her husband was inside holding the intruder at gunpoint. Lesley says Coutts failed to pass on that information to the two other officers.

Inside the house, the Arambulas say, Officer Brian Lilly shot Anthony six times in the back while he was still on the phone with the 911 operator – twice when he was on the ground.

Proximity to the intruder is a window of opportunity for something to go bad.

It was a mistake for the homeowner to hold the intruder at gun point. If everything went perfectly the result would be the intruder getting arrested, but in order for that to happen the homeowner is going to have a negotiation with the police while both he and the police are holding guns (at least briefly) and he is going to have no direct communication with the responding officers until they are within shouting distance.

Self defense isn’t about punishing criminals, our system is not set up that way. It’s nice if burglars get arrested, tried, and punished but that has very little to do with self defense. The goal of the defender is to protect themselves and their families from harm. That could have been accomplished by ordering the intruder to get out of the house (at gun point) and letting him do so.

Proximity to the intruder is a window of opportunity for something to go bad. If the intruder decides to stop complying, reaches for a weapon, or attacks that is going to make for a much worse outcome than simply ordering him to make a run for it.

From my reading of the article there is no evidence that police officers entered the home with the intention of shooting the homeowner, but for whatever reason (poor training, lack of visibility, communications failure) that is what ended up happening.

Lilly says on the tape that he did not know where Anthony’s gun was when he shot him and that he “opened fire because he heard loud noises and saw someone who looked like he might be the ‘Hispanic’ male they were pursuing” before getting to the Arambulas’ house, according to the complaint.

… Sgt. Coutts asked Officer Lilly where Tony’s gun was at the time Officer Lilly had opened fire on Tony. Officer Lilly admitted that he did not know where Tony’s gun was: ‘I don’t know. I heard screaming and I fired.’”

From this it sounds like the officer didn’t properly identify his target before firing. Getting shot by the police is every bit as bad as getting shot by an intruder (from the homeowners perspective) and the homeowner doesn’t have very much control over how the police officer is going to respond.

From the documents presented it sounds like the police are trying to cover up their mistakes. Full Story Here.

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Aggressors claiming self defense.

There is some discussion over at Sharp as a Marble regarding the link I posted here regarding aggressors claiming self defense.

I think Rob is correct in pointing this out:

… ‘proportionate response’ doesn’t translate into the real world easily …

Using the least amount of force is generally the most legally defensible option. If an aggressor is trying to flee and you are preventing them from doing so it is pretty hard to argue that you couldn’t escape. Self defense isn’t designed to be ‘punishment’, we have courts for that. We must fight until we are sure that we can escape, and then we should do so.

Tactically speaking, if you are spending time on a neutralized threat you are creating an opportunity for another assailant. You have already confirmed that you are in the location where fights happen and we don’t know if the first assailant brought along a (tougher) friend. His friend might have been staying out of it because he didn’t want to get hurt, didn’t want to get in trouble, or thought the first guy could handle it. If the defender starts winning, that equation can change.

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